+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 29
  1. 01-10-2006 12:57 PM #1
    mrbrklyn
    mrbrklyn is offline
    CEO of Brooklyn mrbrklyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    10,644
    Blog Entries
    3
    Send a message via AIM to mrbrklyn

    My First Double Die

    That Barbra Dollar I brought is my first double die! At first, I kept thinking the camera was out of focus on the bottom of the coin, but then I really examined it under the magnifying glass, and it took some convincing until I looked at it with full concentration in the sun light in the powerful glass up close and there it was, clear as daylight!

    Check this out

    The full photo is here

    http://www.mrbrklyn.com/coins/baraba...ry_clear_2.jpg
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails barbie_double_date.jpg  


    "The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own society."
    Coin Talk Museum Exhibits
    http://www.mrbrklyn.com/coins.html
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  2. 01-10-2006 05:05 PM #2
    Speedy
    Speedy is offline
    Researching Coins Speedy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    12,016
    Hi Ruben
    Do you mean the date??...I can't tell as it looks blurry but is it machine doubling??

    Speedy

    Coin collecting is the only hobby in the world that you can spend all the money in the world and still have some left over
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  3. 01-10-2006 05:08 PM #3
    Bonedigger
    Bonedigger is offline
    Numismatist Bonedigger's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    South Dakota
    Posts
    7,885
    Looking at the big picture you may have something. The top is clear but the bottom half looks all doubly.

    B

    A few things to remember, Certification and Attribution are Absolute and Definitive. Grading, on the other hand IS NOT. STRIKE is everything, be it strong or weak.
    Capped Bust Half Dollars Identification Reference
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  4. 01-10-2006 05:30 PM #4
    huntsman53
    huntsman53 is offline
    Supporter**
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Jefferson City, Tennessee
    Posts
    3,008
    Quote Originally Posted by Bonedigger
    Looking at the big picture you may have something. The top is clear but the bottom half looks all doubly.

    B

    I also see some stronger doubling on the bottom half of the Obverse but there appears to be lesser doubling on all of the Stars and on "IN GOD WE TRUST" as well. I would venture that it is Distorted Hub Doubling which is not quite as desirable but is Doubled Die Doubling no less!

    Nice find and that is a really nice looking Barber Half! Way to go!


    Frank
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  5. 01-10-2006 05:48 PM #5
    Speedy
    Speedy is offline
    Researching Coins Speedy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    12,016
    I can't even bring up the bigger photo....its too large

    Speedy

    Coin collecting is the only hobby in the world that you can spend all the money in the world and still have some left over
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  6. 01-11-2006 10:46 AM #6
    mrbrklyn
    mrbrklyn is offline
    CEO of Brooklyn mrbrklyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    10,644
    Blog Entries
    3
    Send a message via AIM to mrbrklyn
    Quote Originally Posted by Speedy
    Hi Ruben
    Do you mean the date??...I can't tell as it looks blurry but is it machine doubling??

    Speedy

    Yeah - thats not blurry. the doubling actualy FOOLS your eye to see blur. Its actually pretty cool, like the stripes of Zebra's. The G in GOD is also clearly doubled, especially in the scan. I'm going to get a smaller image for you up in a second.

    http://www.mrbrklyn.com/coins/barabara_1915_obverse.png
    http://www.mrbrklyn.com/coins/barbar..._D_scanner.png



    http://www.mrbrklyn.com/coins/baraba...ar_2_motto.jpg
    http://www.mrbrklyn.com/coins/baraba...ry_clear_3.jpg
    http://www.mrbrklyn.com/coins/baraba...ry_clear_3.png
    http://www.mrbrklyn.com/coins/barbar..._D_scanner.tif

    Ruben

    "The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own society."
    Coin Talk Museum Exhibits
    http://www.mrbrklyn.com/coins.html
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  7. 01-11-2006 10:50 AM #7
    mrbrklyn
    mrbrklyn is offline
    CEO of Brooklyn mrbrklyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    10,644
    Blog Entries
    3
    Send a message via AIM to mrbrklyn
    Quote Originally Posted by huntsman53
    I also see some stronger doubling on the bottom half of the Obverse but there appears to be lesser doubling on all of the Stars and on "IN GOD WE TRUST" as well. I would venture that it is Distorted Hub Doubling which is not quite as desirable but is Doubled Die Doubling no less!

    Nice find and that is a really nice looking Barber Half! Way to go!


    Frank

    Thanks Frank. This coin has already given me more pleasure than I anticaped. I wonder if i send it back to a grading companing with a note about the doubling that they would ID it. What is Distorted Hub Doubling?

    Ruben

    "The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own society."
    Coin Talk Museum Exhibits
    http://www.mrbrklyn.com/coins.html
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  8. 01-11-2006 11:47 AM #8
    mrbrklyn
    mrbrklyn is offline
    CEO of Brooklyn mrbrklyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    10,644
    Blog Entries
    3
    Send a message via AIM to mrbrklyn
    Or Speedy, look at it this way. See how sharp and clean the neck line is on the bottom of the portrait, and then the "blurr" of the date. Those are too close for this much distortion in the focus

    Now look at the lower loop of the 9, inside the curve (and the 5). And then look at the upper tip of the star on the right of the coin.

    Ruben

    "The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own society."
    Coin Talk Museum Exhibits
    http://www.mrbrklyn.com/coins.html
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  9. 01-11-2006 03:43 PM #9
    foundinrolls
    foundinrolls is offline
    Roll Searching Enthusiast foundinrolls's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    2,258
    Hi,
    Sorry Guys. There is no die doubling on this coin. While it is a GREAT looking coin, the doubling is some form of mechanical doubling.
    Bill
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  10. 01-11-2006 03:43 PM #10
    Speedy
    Speedy is offline
    Researching Coins Speedy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    12,016
    Ok Ruben....I think I see it...
    I don't think that is what would be called Doubling....yes its a type of doubling but not the kind the grading Co.s put on slabs...it would be either machine doubling or it might have happened from some vibrations on the machine when the master die was being made.
    None the less...its a cool coin....but IMHO it doesn't add any value to it.

    Speedy

    Coin collecting is the only hobby in the world that you can spend all the money in the world and still have some left over
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  11. 01-12-2006 04:39 PM #11
    Old Silver
    Old Silver is offline
    Senior Member Old Silver's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    406
    You want to see a REAL double die?????? Check out this RARE item!
    Attached Images  

    A closed mouth gathers no foot!
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  12. 01-12-2006 11:03 PM #12
    foundinrolls
    foundinrolls is offline
    Roll Searching Enthusiast foundinrolls's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Washington State
    Posts
    2,258
    Hi,
    Strangely enough though, it illustrates exactly what should be looked for with respect to the notches and overlapping of the lettering on a doubled die coin. Forget for a moment that the letters on the "wood" are flat and that the lettering on a coin should be rounded, give some attention to how the overlapping looks and then examine the areas where the outsides of the letters cross each other. Thats where the "notching" is evident.

    To carry the analogy a little further, most types of mechanical doubling would be illustrated if the ink used for the lettering on the "wood" was smudged in a way that created a doubled appearance to the lettering. On a mechanically doubled coin, metal is "smudged" in a sense by the minting process and metal is moved around in a way that creates a double appearance on the coin.
    I know, Clear as mud:-) But it is a fairly accurate analogy :-)

    Also in the spirit of education, the correct terminology is "Doubled Die" and Not double die.
    Have Fun,
    Bill
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  13. 01-13-2006 12:02 PM #13
    mrbrklyn
    mrbrklyn is offline
    CEO of Brooklyn mrbrklyn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Brooklyn
    Posts
    10,644
    Blog Entries
    3
    Send a message via AIM to mrbrklyn
    If this is not Doubled Die than why is it only evident on the stars and the lettering, and that it all slides in the same direction?

    Got me..

    "The tremendous problem we face is that we are becoming sharecroppers to our own cultural heritage -- we need the ability to participate in our own society."
    Coin Talk Museum Exhibits
    http://www.mrbrklyn.com/coins.html
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  14. 01-13-2006 01:15 PM #14
    Speedy
    Speedy is offline
    Researching Coins Speedy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Posts
    12,016
    Like I said...
    or it might have happened from some vibrations on the machine when the master die was being made.
    That might only show on one side.

    Speedy

    Coin collecting is the only hobby in the world that you can spend all the money in the world and still have some left over
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
  15. 01-13-2006 01:41 PM #15
    huntsman53
    huntsman53 is offline
    Supporter**
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Jefferson City, Tennessee
    Posts
    3,008
    Although the doubling is very slight, I still believe that it is a minor Doubled Die caused by Distorted Hub Doubling!

    Ruben,

    I will try to explain Distorted Hub Doubling as best I can but I may have left something out or may not be totally correct in the description! Distorted Hub Doubling occurs when a Working Hub (Die for creating Working Dies) is created and the Master Hub used does not cool to it's normal size after annealing (heated to harden it) sometime during the process of creating the Working Hub. The Master Hub is annealed and after cooling, it is used to press the image/details into the Working Hub then it is heated again and allowed to cool before it is used again for the second pressing. If before the first pressing or in between the first and second pressing, the Master Hub does not return to it's normal size after annealing, then the images/details on the Working Hub will be off. If this Working Hub is used to make a Working Die, then Working Die will then have the doubling and the result is Doubling either towards the Rim or towards the Center of the coin. Distorted Hub Doubling can generally occur anytime in transfer of the image/details from a Master Die to a Master Hub, from a Master Hub to a Working Hub and from a Working Hub to a Working Die.


    Frank
    Reply With Quote Reply With Quote
« New buy, new scanner. | Are these worth it? »

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts

Forum Rules

» Support CoinTalk!

Supporters get more features and less ads!

Click here to sign up!

» Recent Threads

» The Radio Show