I'm not a collector that is interested in having my coins graded or encapsulated and have a slight interest in buying graded coins but I've always wondered something about NGC, PCGS, etc., etc.
If someone sends a tube of Silver Eagles (or whatever coins) to NGC (or whomever) and they grade some MS69 and maybe even one MS70, what do they do with the rest? Send them back as they got them? Encapsulate them and put whatever grade on the rest, whatever it may be? Can you tell them "only encapsulte 69 and above but leave the rest as is?"
What if I send them one coin and it ends up grading really low? Do they go ahead and encapsulate it anyway and just put the grade, whatever it may be?
I'm really curious about the whole routine...thanks
You can ask for only coins graded 69 or 70. However, you will still pay the grading fees for all the coins not making the grade. This is why the game is so hard to play for collectors.
Unless you ask for a specific grade, they will encapsulate and grade all coins submitted.
When you submit coins to a grading service, you may specify that any coins not reaching a certain grade be returned raw. However, the fees will still apply.
They will grade it as it deserves. For instance, I had a 1981 type II Lincoln Cent. I sent it (wasn't sure if it was a true type II, clear "S") and it came back PR63RD. I knew it wasn't the best proof because a blemish, but they still graded it as it probably deserved.
Just because a coin doesn't make 69 or 70 doesn't mean that it wouldn't get graded. Matter of fact it, they will all get graded, provided it is not cleaned, dipped and/or altered. ONLY if you ask that the coin is not to be slabbed/graded if it falls under a desired grade (i.e., cross overs) will the grading service not slab it, but rest assure, you will still be charged for it whether it ends up in a slab or not.
OK, I think I get the gist of how this works but I noticed something about Silver Eagles. I see MS 70 and MS 69 complete sets from 1986-2004 all the time but I never see MS68 sets. Pardon my complete ignorance here but why not?
Because the grading industry HYPE is to complete a set out of only the best which is MS70 or PRF70 according to what you may be submitting. A grade of MS69 or PRF69 is so close and there are those collectors out there who would accept that grade and of course, they are a little lighter on the wallet. The grading industry is playing on the fact most folks WANT the best so its money in there pockets. I have compared all kinds of high grade coins, in slabs, to a great number of coins still in proof sets and I am telling you I just can't see why anyone would pay someone to tell them they have a nice coin which, for the most part, they already knew or they wouldn't be submitting it in the first place? I may be a die hard, old schooled coin collector but I will stick to my guns and not be fooled into a false market, especially for modern clad coinage. If I wanted to gamble I would go the a casino or play the stock market and we all know what seems to happen there the majority of the time?
For moderns (that is within the last 40 years) and for those coins that are not intended for circulation (like Silver Eagles), MS69 and MS70 grades rule. Look at the price difference between a PCGS or NGC 70 versus a 69. The amount is huge as the idea of a "perfect" coin is VERY rare.
For most part, Silver American Eagles (SAE's) coins coming right out of the mint are not handled like circulated coins (cents, nickels, etc.) and you would expect that most SAE's would at least obtain a 68 grade due to this extra care (how it is packaged and stored).
So, a 68 grade would, in my opinion, be the minimum one would come to expect for a SAE and these are quite plentiful. When you get to the 69's and the very rare 70's is when you are really splitting hairs.
When you get to the 69's and the very rare 70's is when you are really splitting hairs.
The folks who've been here a while all know that I consider slabbing to be worthwhile for authentication only, so pardon me for butting in where perhaps I'm not wanted, but it just seems to me that even though the difference between a 68 and a 69 is almost certainly an exercise in splitting hairs, the difference between 69 and 70 is an absolute no-brainer.
By definition, 70 is "perfect". That means full luster, a full strike, no bag or contact marks, no rub or other circulation marks, and no spots, discolorations, etc. (I know, tarnish is okay with most folks so long as you call it "toning".) No matter how close to perfect it may be, a coin with any defect, however slight, does not now, and never will, meet that definition.
I agree Roy...however I have some SAE PCGS PR69DCAM's and I look and look and for the life of me I can't find any fault to the coin.
Then, when I look at a PR70DCAM for the same year and, you guessed it, I can't tell the difference from the 69 to the 70 under the same 5X magnification. Maybe they put them under the scope and look under 10, 15 or 20X, but I have seen many 69DCAM's (especially SAE's which I love) and can't see anything that would warrant one a 69 and the other a 70.
I understand the concept of a perfect 70, but can a coin ever achieve a 70? If you look under serious magnification where the human eye could never ascertain such minute differences, is any struck coin ever going to be "perfect"?
However, the market demands and insists on the possibility that it can be achieved. Hence, the discussion continues.
No matter how close to perfect it may be, a coin with any defect, however slight, does not now, and never will, meet that definition.
Works for me - but what about the coins that don't have any defects ?
You guys wanna know what really drives me crazy ? It's how a great many of collectors always rag on & on about condition rarities for modern coins. But show them an MS67, let alone an MS68 Morgan dollar and they'll oooooooh & awwwwwww for two weeks like it's the greatest thing in the world and as rare as hen's teeth. But I got news for ya - it aint.
Guys, condition rarities exist for all coins - and I don't care how old they are. But that's what makes them rare - their condition. Morgan dollars are not rare - not even close. They are as common as common can be. Now I'm not knocking Morgans - far from it. I'm making a point - that there is no difference in condition rarities because of a coin's age.
True - you won't find MS68 Morgans on every street corner. But in the coin world - you'll find Morgan dollars on every corner. And the same goes for a great many other coins. And if you look hard enough - you'll even find MS69 Morgan dollars - yes they are out there and yes they have been graded & slabbed as such. But just go try to find an MS69 Washington quarter or Kennedy half. Know what ?? You'll find more Morgans than either of them.
That's what bugs me when folks talk about condition rarities.
Ed, you are not the only one. We have taken 69 and 70 coins to the NGC and PCGS tables with the grades covered up and they could not tell. All depends on the day.
The only thing a set at 70 will do is cost you more money and boost the ego a bit.
For those who really appreciate the finest......(Not our coin)
We have taken 69 and 70 coins to the NGC and PCGS tables with the grades covered up and they could not tell. All depends on the day.
...and who is submitting?, and how many coins are submitted?, and what service is the coin submitted under (economy versus same day)? and the mood of the grader(s)?
I often wondered how the above play into grading. They shouldn't, but I can't help think that these factors "may" influence one grade versus another for the same coin.
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Originally Posted by Ed Zak 
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